Setlist 11-11-2005 Somerville Theater

[sm]

the shouters - yeah, thats a beauty... a friend told me he asked brad about that one in burlington and was told that they dont have a piece of gear anymore that they need for that song.. i guess lost along the way sometime, or maybe stolen that summer, or maybe just broken? maybe also bullshit. who knows. but it got me thinkin...

how stuff like that (broken gear, lost gear, stolen gear..) can really alter a direction or sound.. i mean, say you get some insurance coin and you go to replace whatever it is, then you're in the music store and you decide to check out something different, you like it, and instead you buy that.. or you just dont have the money to replace something, so you just work with what you've got... whatever the case... i mean, i do it with my photography, i've had a camera stolen, i've had to replace lenses, and sometimes you just decide you want something different, but in that, it alters the type of pictures you can take, so, then, you alter the way you shoot, you find different ways to get the point across, so to say... i dunno... just thinkin out loud, mostly...

[booher]

another song that they never play anymore that I miss is Fear of Falling.

[headnugg]

sorry headnugg, but you are actually whining. plain and simple.

I rambled a lot, but still, if you can't get anything out of the new shows, then you aren't listening enough. You're being too much of a stiff and not being open-minded enough.

I don't think someone that ends their post with the above has any validity at all. You calling me a whiner just seems ridiculous. You seem to be one of those know it all "listeners" who tells people that "you're just not listening right, or enough" or "you're not being open minded enough." Who are you to tell me or anyone that? That is absurd, everyone is going to have a different opinion on the new shit, it's not a matter of "listening enough." What's worse, a know it all like yourself or a whiner?(which BTW, I'm not, there's nothing whiney in my posts at all, I'm merely stating an opinion, maybe you're not reading enough and not being open-minded enough there superfan) Or maybe you're just a new school slip fan who simply just does not know what they're missing......

I've been "listening" to the Slip for a long time. It doesn't take a "listen" to realize the shit they are playing now is garbage, and it's not the Slip I became a fan of, the Slip that I love. The Slip is a completely new band now. A completely new band that I will not be paying upwards of $20 to see anytime soon. If you want to go see a sick rock show, go see the Black Keys. I just saw them tonite and they absolutely blew the Slip out of the water. 'Nuff said.

[Katie]

Alright, seeing as torph is MIA as far as I know, I'm putting on the 'moderator' hat here for a minute... Just a reminder: this is a place for talking about shows and reviews of discussing what you like and don't like about music, not people. I'm drawing the line on personal attacks on this board. Quit it with the name-calling or shit directed to anyone about their personality, and not strictly limited to discussing their opinions. Play nice kiddies or take it somewhere else.

[booher]

snip

I think I have plenty of validity whether I said that or not. I said that in my post because I ended up adding in a lot of my own opinions about the show instead of just going straight ahead and calling out what you had to say.

I've listened the Slip for a good two years now. I don't care if I haven't listened to them since 97 when Gecko came out. I still got started on the Slip from the Gecko material. And at the time I was a lot more avid in studying jazz, which is why a lot of it appealed to me. Jazz guitar for me is going to be a lifelong peursuit (which is like I like to consider myself a "know-it-all"...I play an instrument, and feel at least a bit accomplished at what I do). You have to compare what BAM is doing to the music improvisationally, for one thing, to other bands out there today and still realize that there is no one out there that you can think of that sounds like them. You can hear influences from other people's sounds, for instance, like a Modest Mouse sort of sound at the end of Paper Birds for the closing part, and some of Brad's sound is starting to be sort of like the Edge's sound, with a lot of cool delays and nice cleans. Only difference to Brad's is he uses a touch of overdrive instead. And then you have to look at BAM's songwriting structure and see who they compare to. I can't tell you the last band mainstream rock band that incorporated a 6th chord into their music. And that's just a simple one, and only one instance.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the same talent that you saw before is still there, it's just being incorporated in a new style. It still reflects their talents, but it maybe just doesn't let it shine like their old stuff did. Maybe they thought they were doing too much of what I said before with the old hippie jazz stuff...wanking. Even if you look at Marc's bio on the slip homepage, I think that one of his quotes is exactly what the band is doing for themselves, innovating stretching the boundaries of their instruments while still staying true to themselves. And I think that's very reflective of what they're doing. When was the last time you looked over the bio page? Brad's first guitar hero was Angus Young, according to that. It's only a matter of time before they get back to playing good rock. It's in their roots. It doesn't mean that they no longer like jazz, or that they're never going to play jazz any more, OR that they suck. All three are just untrue. They're just taking new directions to try different things. If you look over the timeline of a few songs, you'd see how they've changed over time, too. And you'll probably see the same sort of thing with these new gems, eventually.

Lastly, I don't see how you think these guys suck. Sure, if you compare them to the old Slip, maybe they do in your eyes. I did that for a while with Steely Dan, where I was a hardcore Can't Buy a Thrill sort of guy, and then The Royal Scam, Aja, and all of the other newer jazzy albums I kind of dismissed. Even Pretzel Logic took a while to be good to me. But I listened to them, and I started to listen deeper into them and soon found myself enjoying them...a lot. Maybe even more than I did the original CBAT album. It's the same sort of thing. And the other thing that I wanted to say as a final note in addition to the one above, was who are you comparing these guys to besides themselves? Who do they suck compared to? What band is really putting out awesome music that is stretching the realms of rock, jazz influence improvisation and song writing that you can really think of, that when compared to these guys would make you think that The Slip sucks? I'd be interested to hear them. I can't think of any.

[headnugg]

snip

I've listened the Slip for a good two years now.

Jazz guitar for me is going to be a lifelong peursuit (which is like I like to consider myself a "know-it-all"...I play an instrument, and feel at least a bit accomplished at what I do). You have to compare what BAM is doing to the music improvisationally, for one thing, to other bands out there today and still realize that there is no one out there that you can think of that sounds like them. You can hear influences from other people's sounds, for instance, like a Modest Mouse sort of sound at the end of Paper Birds for the closing part, and some of Brad's sound is starting to be sort of like the Edge's sound, with a lot of cool delays and nice cleans. Only difference to Brad's is he uses a touch of overdrive instead. And then you have to look at BAM's songwriting structure and see who they compare to.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the same talent that you saw before is still there, it's just being incorporated in a new style.

It doesn't mean that they no longer like jazz, or that they're never going to play jazz any more, OR that they suck. All three are just untrue. They're just taking new directions to try different things.

Lastly, I don't see how you think these guys suck. And the other thing that I wanted to say as a final note in addition to the one above, was who are you comparing these guys to besides themselves? Who do they suck compared to? What band is really putting out awesome music that is stretching the realms of rock, jazz influence improvisation and song writing that you can really think of, that when compared to these guys would make you think that The Slip sucks? I'd be interested to hear them. I can't think of any.

I in no way do I think the Slip sucks. I think you need to go back to all my posts and really read more carefully. I think the songs I saw them play at Somerville all sounded the same and were boring as hell. I know they are three of the most talented musicians around......that's why it bothers me that they're wasting their talents with feedback and distortion and Brad singing so much, which is clearly not his strong suit. And guess what? I don't like Modest Mouse, and I sure as shit don't like Edge and U2, so if they're are starting to be some similarities between them and the Slip, that's bad news to me. And I don't have to compare what they're doing to anyone else out there, or to the music improvisationally, or whatever, I only have to decide whether or not I like the music. I can honestly say that recently I have not liked the music.

And no offense, I'm not trying to "snip" here, but someone who's only been seing the Slip for two years doesn't know what they're missing. You never saw the Slip when they used to play their sick jazz oriented shows. Sure, you've heard From the Gecko on your home stereo. But in terms of a live performance, it would be impossible for you to know what you're missing, what I'm talking about, because you never witnessed it for yourself. And I'm not trying to sound like one of those old school phish fans, who thinks they're cool because they saw them in 93 and everything after 95 sucked. I'm merely making a point that you truly don't know what you're missing. IMHO around 2 years ago is when the decline started. 12/30/03 was the first time ever I found myself bored at a slip show.....for a few tunes anyway.

And as far as playing an instrument makes you're post more valid or whatever, dude, half the people on this site, including me, play the guitar, so that doesn't make you able to "listen" better than anyone. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, and I just didn't see any beauty in the set they played at Somerville. If the Slip wants to sound like Modest Mouse, that's awesome, I'm just not going to listen. Obviously bands have to change, I don't begrudge them that, it's just that what they've changed into I don't particularly care for, and I'm venting that opinion on this here discussion board, along with a bunch of other people.

[booher]

I in no way do I think the Slip sucks. I think you need to go back to all my posts and really read more carefully.

I was referring to your opinion on these guys now, not before. It's quite obvious you think that their new material "sucks."

I think the songs I saw them play at Somerville all sounded the same and were boring as hell.

How did they sound the same...I listen to the set now and I don't see the similarities in song structure, lyrics, melodies, or anything. The only thing I can think of is that a lot of these songs share the same key signature. Perhaps you should explain this to me.

I know they are three of the most talented musicians around......that's why it bothers me that they're wasting their talents with feedback and distortion and Brad singing so much, which is clearly not his strong suit.

Distortion doesn't make something suck. There really wasn't any of this said feedback at the show. If you were hearing feedback, it was because of his ring modulator that apparently has a bad connection through either the input jack or the adapter (but I think the EHX Frequency Analyzers are utilizing plugs, instead of inputs for 9v/18v power). And I agree that Brad's singing isn't always the best, but I think you have to realize that all of the band members probably have wanted some lyrical exploration that they were obviously deprived of through jazz. And can you really blame them?

And guess what? I don't like Modest Mouse, and I sure as shit don't like Edge and U2, so if they're are starting to be some similarities between them and the Slip, that's bad news to me.

That's great, but Brad just so happens to like Modest Mouse, or again, from what I've read on their site he was listening to Modest Mouse for a while. And even if you don't like them he is taking what HE likes about them, or the Edge's tone or improvisational style for rock and incorporating it into his own writing. You'll notice that none of their songs sound like a Modest Mouse song or like a U2 song (save Sorry>With or Without You>Sorry, of course). And that's because they aren't those bands. But what's more important is that each of the band members are picking up on things that they like ABOUT those bands's styles of improvisation or song writing. So if you don't like it, maybe you do need to wait around for new material to come out from these guys that you will like. Give them a rest for a while and put something else on the stereo, or go to a different show.

And I don't have to compare what they're doing to anyone else out there, or to the music improvisationally, or whatever, I only have to decide whether or not I like the music. I can honestly say that recently I have not liked the music.

Well then you shouldn't be making a musical critique if you ask me. How do you compare music? How do you say this music is bad without comparing it to something already written? Just because you don't flat out like it doesn't make it "bad." It just makes it your opinion. But I don't see any justification for your claims, and I don't see why anyone else should believe what you have to say about the music being mediocre or subpar of a band when you can't say anything about it besides the fact that you don't like it.

I think it's fine that you don't like the new music. But to come out here and say the music is boring without any real reason for it is pretty much outlandish. And then to tell me that i don't know the real Slip energy that they had years ago, and then say that you needn't compare the band to anyone else or even themselves? That's pretty contradictory, if you ask me.

And no offense, I'm not trying to "snip" here, but someone who's only been seing the Slip for two years doesn't know what they're missing. You never saw the Slip when they used to play their sick jazz oriented shows. Sure, you've heard From the Gecko on your home stereo. But in terms of a live performance, it would be impossible for you to know what you're missing, what I'm talking about, because you never witnessed it for yourself.

Sure, I understand what you are saying, and that's my loss. I'd heard of this band before that time, I just put off listening to them. In turn I missed out on seeing them at the Somerville show in 2003 because of it. My fault. Oh well. But even so, I have some of their older shows recorded, and I have listened to them and I did like them. Doesn't necessarily make me less knowledgable on the band. It actually just makes me less fortunate.

And as far as playing an instrument makes you're post more valid or whatever, dude, half the people on this site, including me, play the guitar, so that doesn't make you able to "listen" better than anyone.

Yeah, I realize a lot of people play drums, bass and guitar. But, there's a big difference between just playing it and actually studying into it. I won't get into that, because that's a whole different debate. But if you want to sometime test my knowledge on music or guitar related stuff, be my guest. It'd be fun anyways.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, and I just didn't see any beauty in the set they played at Somerville. If the Slip wants to sound like Modest Mouse, that's awesome, I'm just not going to listen. Obviously bands have to change, I don't begrudge them that, it's just that what they've changed into I don't particularly care for, and I'm venting that opinion on this here discussion board, along with a bunch of other people.

Fair enough. My only complaint of the band would be that they're not mixing in the old with the new, and that for the past 4 shows I've seen them play, the set lists have been way too similar.

[headnugg]

well you seem to be missing my point time and time again, probably because you have no frame of reference for what I'm specifically speaking about. There's absolutely no point in continuing on w/ this debate.

[diesel]

I in no way do I think the Slip sucks.

No shit buddy. Can you state the obvious some more please? You mean the Slip actually goes out and plays what they want? Wow, I hadn't realized. That's not "enough said", Captain Obvious. We're having an intelligent discussion here about how much the Slip suck now. Of course we all know the Slip is who they are and play what the feel like playing. We're trying to disect the suckiness of it all, and argue amongst ourselves about why it sucks, Old vs. New, and exactly how much last nights show did suck.

thank you for sharing your sucky thoughts

[headnugg]

That is fucking funny.

[Cleantone]

[Dan]

AND.....

(someone find understanding)

[booher]

AND.....

(someone find understanding)

what's so funny about those two? or peace?

[diesel]

That is fucking funny.

i know how you feel dude. in some ways i feel the same. i would be very very surprised if someone who has been around for a while is going to say their new stuff is better than their old stuff. we all know this. but it is what it is. theres nothing we can do about. we can choose to continue to listen or not, its up to us.

nice debate nugg and booher, if we meet at NYE, a beer on me.

[headnugg]

well done sir. debate over


go to BT.etree and download the Atmosphere vegoose show and try something new......