Maturity and Censorship

[RKBliMelon]

Recently, I was asked to remove my picture thingy from my profile due to the fact that it exhibited the naked torso of a woman (a pen and ink drawing to be exact). Said photo was taken from a promotional flyer for a performance of Richard Strauss'opera Salome, which is an adaptation of Oscar Wilde's play of the fictional account of King Herod's wife's daughter Salome. She becomes infatuated with John the baptist whilst he is imprisoned and wants to kiss him, he refuses, blah, blah, she has himi beheaded and subsequently kisses his severed head. All very romantic. All very Strauss. So this was my picture thingy. And I was asked to remove it. Not because there was a woman kissing a severed head, but because her illustarted breasts were exposed.
Meanwhile, there are topics posted suggesting sexual activity. Where has all the maturity gone? Just wanted to know what happened to free speech. Consequently, I have adjusted my choice of picture thingy to suit the audience at hand. See yáll at SMMD VT. If you have beef, feel free to approach me, I will be the topless gal carrying the severed head on the silver platter.
Rebecca Lee Kopycinski

[Phrazz]

You're completely correct and have a right to post any Avatar you wish. If by illustrating your point you choose to use Barney to impress us as to how mature you are, then I thank you for your divine wisdom.

I was trying to illustrate a few points, one of which was we asked someone to take down a topless Salma Hayek (not an illustration, but shall I use an illustration of a flayed penis on an operating table because it's simply a surgical procedure drawing?). This double standard cannot be enforced, so why bother?

It's your call. Obviously you have a strong point and by the vastness of your posting history, you have a vested interest in the continued evolution of this board. If by evolution and maturity you wish for us to use any Avatar we wish, I will find the most ungodly, offensive, disgusting and despicable Avatar I can find to illustrate my point.

So I put this to a vote: who wants "anything goes" policy on Avatars and graphics? Is it OK to post nudity (illustrations or photographs, whatever)? How about obscene language?

What is Free Speech if not the ability to know restraint?

What is freedom? Does freedom imply responsibility? What is the difference between freedom and license? Are these childish notions, too?

Does it really matter in the long run if we try to be nice?

So much for chivalry.

-Phrazz

[Dan]

didnt we have that chivalry discussion already.


I didnt find taht offensive, and i am one of the youngest members here, or maybe i would be the one that would love that picture, do to my high hormone levels...


Later
dan

[Phrazz]

Here is my original request letter. Perhaps the group can help me with my writing style, or in principle, stand like a rock and tell me not to meddle in the affairs of noble principles anymore.

What do you want to happen to the rules on this board? I am open to suggestions. Silence is not an option. Silence will be met with silence (you can translate that any way you choose).

Hi Rebecca,

Recently one of the SlipLive board members expressed concern about your Avatar.
We had one of our members take down an Avatar that had a topless woman, since
it was objectionable. Now though your current Avatar isn't exactly the same, it does
show a topless woman and we can't have a double standard. It's either allow all
forms of nudity (this would include other body parts) or disallow objectionable ones.

I fully understand the principles of free speech, but if you could find another Avatar,
we could avoid the debate altogether. I apologize for bringing this up, but people
do not want to sound prude--and I'm not, but I err on the side of caution typically.

Please let me know what you think.

-Thanks,

Nick

[Pstehley]

yup... that's pretty freaking disturbing... even by my standards....

it's like science class!!!

[Tara]

Personally I think the double standard wasn't fair. Treefrog was asked to take down his avatar of a womens legs in fishnets. I don't really see what was offensive about that? They are just legs? And they were rather nice legs too. But for some reason he was asked to take them down. Chivalry...wasn't it?

So my question in all of this is.....why were legs offensive, but it's ok to have a topless women? Pen and ink or not in society i'd say in general a pair of legs in more acceptable and less "offensive" than a topless lady. What is this code of "Chivalry" we have here on the boards? Who decides what is and what isn't offensive?

I'm all for freedom of expression. But I am not a fan of double standards. So I think if Rebecca is allowed to put her avatar back up, Treefrog should also be able to put his legs up. And then I will change my avatar to a picture of elephantitis of the scrotum. OK?

Peace,
Tara

[Pstehley]

And then I will change my avatar to a picture of elephantitis of the scrotum. OK?

I whole heartedly agree with you tara. I honestly think, more often than not, people take these type of message boards waaaaay to seriously. If you're really worried about offending people all the time, then don't bother posting anything, b/c somewhere/somehow your offending someone.

Art is art, but there is a very important thing to be learned, tact. This was a problem I had through high school all the way through college up until a couple yrs ago. My problem was, when I thought something, I said it. If I thought someone was dumb as a box of rocks, I called them on it. (Pam and my best friend Brian were my own personal disclaimers {yeah, don't worry about him, he's just a dick})

Back to the point at hand, I think anyone should post whatever the hell they want. It's about freedom of expression. Are we really that old and wound tight that we need to be little reaganites chanting "don't do this, don't do that"?

If you want to post something, just use tact. Is it art or is it just the picture from lemonpart.com that Tim sent me as a joke? And everybody needs to quit taking themselves so fucking seriously. God.. I mean, I understand as you get older, you mature, I mean, shit, I'll be 28 in 2 weeks.. and Pam and I are starting to talk about kids, but the last thing I'm going to do is take offense to something posted on a message board. If you want to post art with some nudity or whatever, go ahead, just put something like NWS (Non Work Safe) in the subject. If you think you'll be offended by it, don't look at it. Now as for a naked woman or elphantitis genitalia as you're avatar, I would not suggest it, because everytime you post, it puts them on, so there is really now way to not have them show up. But, I'm nobody's boss, so do what the hell you want.

None the less, everybody needs to mellow brah.. it's a fucking message board. If this is the way you would talk in real life, than go ahead, just ask tim about me giving him crap for his single tent... just from time to time, have some tact..

Hopefully, I don't sound like too much of an ass..

[diesel]

I will be the topless gal carrying the severed head on the silver platter.

yes! if you get a pic of yourself doing that, i will certainly vote to allow it!

i say hardcore porn avatars for all!

[tim]

i removed phrazz's image because it is not work safe. i don't want anyone else who is at work and reading this board to unknowingly be confronted with rasputin's cock in a pickle jar.

now, moving on to the topic at hand. i was not offened by the avatar in question. i also was not offened by the selma hayek image or treefrog's avatar depicting a pair of legs. if anything, i'm most offended by the avatar depicting benito mussolini but i'll let that whole thing speak for itself(are our schools now teaching the kids that facists are "badasses" who should be revered?).

now this is a tough argument because i see both sides of the coin. RKBliMelon's avatar depicting nudity is a work of art but if it is allowed then you're led down the slippery slope of "what is art?". it's a tough call because if you allow that then, in the name of fairness, you'd have have to allow pictures of full frontal nudity shot in the name of "art". anyone who knows me knows that i am by no means a prude but there does have to bee some continuity in the rules. when looking at pictures on this board i tend to judge them by one standard...is this worksafe? avatars and pictures are more blatant than words.

moving onto words...of course some verbal obscenity should be allowed. i think a word like "fuck" is one of the greatest conveyors of honest emotion in the english language. but allowing loose language does not mean this is the place where we should be sharing the intimate details of our most recent sexual escapades. the keyword is discretion.

as for the state of the board...this board wasn't established to be the national symposium on thermonuclear dynamics i.e.-you're not always going to have the most thoughtful and "mature" discussions going on. i'm very leery of people who are so quick to judge others' maturity. yeah, some of us on here are immature but that doesn't mean we're not thoughtful and caring people. our being isn't defined soley by our postings on a fucking internet message board. if someone judges someone else based only on what they type on the internet then i ask who really is the "immature" person here. now this isn't directed at you rebecca or anyone else in particular, it's more food for though because i know it's been an issue in the past. this board wasn't created to live up to everyone's standards. nobody has to come here, read and participate. the great thing about these boards is that they become what the collective whole allows them to become. nothing gets to me more than when i see people bitching about a problem and not doing anything to counteract it.

[Tara]

DAMMIT! I was wondering where Phrazz's picture was.

bwaahaha

Phrazz..you are my hero

Edited to add

Art is art, but there is a very important thing to be learned, tact

Agreed! Tact and Class! It seems people are losing touch with those things. I think there is a huge difference between being "Classy" and being a prude. But maybe i'm wrong. Maybe classy is just a nice word for prude and i'm just trying to make myself feel better

[JEFFfromNC]

People love to test the limits, so it looks like we need a set of rules and regulations for the avatars and signatures. Someone move this post over to the web page section where it belongs.

So I'll start off with what I would consider an acceptable set of rules for avatars and signatures:


1) No pornographic, including hentai, or objectionable content in avatar images or signatures. We, the board administrators, reserve the right to define what content is objectionable. Avatars or signatures that are deemed offensive by the board administrators will be removed. Pornography can be hard to define (art or not), but it is surly recognized by all. Lets keep things work safe, as many people read the forums from work.

2) If you are not using one of the built-in avatars, please don't duplicate someone else's avatar - especially if they made it themselves. Try not to rip off other people's avatar work.

Lets see if we can add and remove from this and get a good guideline in place.

[Cleantone]

How bout this one...

If your gonna post nudity, it has to be of yourself!!

[diesel]

jeffs rules sound good to me. i like the idea of work safe avatars.

as for nudity, i say if someone wants to post something of the 'mature' nature, then post it under photography and say NWS (not work safe).

[tasoula]

How bout this one...

If your gonna post nudity, it has to be of yourself!!

I second this idea!

[Pstehley]

How bout this one...

If your gonna post nudity, it has to be of yourself!!

I'm sorry, but even Pam has trouble seeing this...