Maturity and Censorship
Moderators: Cleantone, harrymcq, Phrazz
Who enforces the laws?
What would this man say about indecent material?
Does anyone find this image offensive?
I find Mussolini offensive, just like I find Hitler offensive--but should that simple fact (that people find it offensive) be enough to take something down?
Where do the first amendment and the rules of the board differ? Topless Salma is OK because technically it's not pornographic? I'm sure Pat will come up with something else that's on the border...further testing the rules.
Or I'll come up with something else (like Rasputin's Pickled Cock).
As for "work safe", apparently "FUCK" is ok, but scientific examples are not?
I think drawing the lines isn't so obvious as to say "everyone knows what's pornographic" (take a closer look at this JPEG).
This is turning out to be a rather interesting discussion.
What's Rebecca's response? I'm curious also about what she thinks, even though she might not feel that way (I know how I feel...I'm eager to learn what people feel, even though this might not be readily apparent at first).
Now as for the "own body parts" rule, I do have a macro lens.... ;-}
Jeff's rule is a good start, but "objectionable material" needs to be defined. It's not good enough (for Rebecca, Treefrog, perhaps others) to loosely define such a guideline. For instance, are men's nipples OK but not women's? That's a double standard if I ever heard one. Can you tell the difference at 10x magnification? I'm sure we could tell the difference by taste.
Whenever there are rules, there will always be rule-breakers. No matter how carefully we define the boundaries, someone will help us refine that line (thanks, Pat!). Indeed, it would seem that the gratification of overstepping the limits far exceeds the gratification of writing something decent and profound.
I'm not sure where this board is going, but going from Salame to Barney still has me perplexed -- I wonder if this mere distinction is what sets the righteous from the wrongdoers.
I could refrain from being nice. I could perhaps turn off images altogether and see what result ensues. However, I don't find that challenging or even enlightening--these are some of the major reasons why I Don't Do That [tm]. Maybe the right or wrong is irrelevant -- baser aspects of humanity like curiosity are far more poignant than morality, in my limited opinion.
So, take a look at that Ashcroft pic again and sometime I'll show you the "enhanced" version. It is another kind of artistic masterpiece (though certainly not like the Mona Lisa, but I never liked that painting anyways...I'm more of a Kandinsky fan).
-Phrazz
P.S.: Thanks for protecting me from myself!
Does anyone find this image offensive?
I find Mussolini offensive, just like I find Hitler offensive--but should that simple fact (that people find it offensive) be enough to take something down?
Where do the first amendment and the rules of the board differ? Topless Salma is OK because technically it's not pornographic? I'm sure Pat will come up with something else that's on the border...further testing the rules.
Or I'll come up with something else (like Rasputin's Pickled Cock).
As for "work safe", apparently "FUCK" is ok, but scientific examples are not?
I think drawing the lines isn't so obvious as to say "everyone knows what's pornographic" (take a closer look at this JPEG).
This is turning out to be a rather interesting discussion.
What's Rebecca's response? I'm curious also about what she thinks, even though she might not feel that way (I know how I feel...I'm eager to learn what people feel, even though this might not be readily apparent at first).
Now as for the "own body parts" rule, I do have a macro lens.... ;-}
Jeff's rule is a good start, but "objectionable material" needs to be defined. It's not good enough (for Rebecca, Treefrog, perhaps others) to loosely define such a guideline. For instance, are men's nipples OK but not women's? That's a double standard if I ever heard one. Can you tell the difference at 10x magnification? I'm sure we could tell the difference by taste.
Whenever there are rules, there will always be rule-breakers. No matter how carefully we define the boundaries, someone will help us refine that line (thanks, Pat!). Indeed, it would seem that the gratification of overstepping the limits far exceeds the gratification of writing something decent and profound.
I'm not sure where this board is going, but going from Salame to Barney still has me perplexed -- I wonder if this mere distinction is what sets the righteous from the wrongdoers.
I could refrain from being nice. I could perhaps turn off images altogether and see what result ensues. However, I don't find that challenging or even enlightening--these are some of the major reasons why I Don't Do That [tm]. Maybe the right or wrong is irrelevant -- baser aspects of humanity like curiosity are far more poignant than morality, in my limited opinion.
So, take a look at that Ashcroft pic again and sometime I'll show you the "enhanced" version. It is another kind of artistic masterpiece (though certainly not like the Mona Lisa, but I never liked that painting anyways...I'm more of a Kandinsky fan).
-Phrazz
P.S.: Thanks for protecting me from myself!
- Pstehley
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Re: Who enforces the laws?
Phrazz wrote:What would this man say about indecent material?
Whenever there are rules, there will always be rule-breakers. No matter how carefully we define the boundaries, someone will help us refine that line (thanks, Pat!).
I've actually seen that picture before, and actually a lot of pictures like it. But that one of Ashecroft is just very ironic...
I don't try and push the boundries... I guess my moral compass is just off by a degree or two. I just think things are funny sometimes..
In any form, rules/ethics/whatever will always be tested. Remember when you were a kid and your mom told you not to do something.. that was just like fueling the fire, instantly making you want to do it..
Living in a world with so many rules.. it's just kinda nice to go somewhere where rules still exist, but they can be slightly pushed...
Like I said though, I understand the arguement completely, but sometimes I really feel like some people just take themselves too seriously. Think of me what you will, but this is kind of an outlet for me. I work in an extremely clinical type atmosphere, where people are really uptight and freaked out all the time.. time schedules and things not going to plan.. I love my job, but people really don't know how to mellow out. Generally, you can't let things get to you.. anyway.. sorry for rambling.. but this discussion is kinda like watching nascar for me.. I'm just waiting for the carnage and I can't look away.*
(*disclaimer* Before the pennsyltuckey comments come busting out, I don't watch Nascar... nor do I have a favorite driver and my truck does not have a confederate flag or Calvin pissing on a 2 anywhere... *disclaimer*)
- RKBliMelon
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so much drama
I wasn't expecting to create such a buzz. All this and I wasn't once offended. I wasn't even mad. I just wanted to prove a point: this is a forum where thoughts are to be expressed; apparently I didn't consider the ramifications of a topless lady and a severed head; imagine the response when this opera was premiered in the early 1900s. Nothing actually offends me. You could only offend me by insulting my voice.
It's tattooed on my butt.
Life is a state of mind. (Have you seen "Being There?" You've got to. What a statement. And Oteil Burbridge plays a little punk on the street corner.)
Life is a state of mind. (Have you seen "Being There?" You've got to. What a statement. And Oteil Burbridge plays a little punk on the street corner.)
Jeez... I go away for 6 days and miss what all the commotion is about. Phrazz, I did get your e-mail asking for my 2 cents... so here's a brief response to everyone. I didn't see the avatar that started this thread, but I was slightly bothered by the Selma one that was put up a while ago, and let this be known to the person who was using it, who volunteered to pick another one. To me, this is the best way to deal with issues, resolve them by talking about it when it happens. People shouldn't feel like there's a prior restraint on what they say in words or pictures, but also anyone should feel like they can step in and say something when they are bothered by something or don't agree with a judgement call. I think giving people an idea of what we think is appropraite is important, but it's nearly impossible to be so specific as to cover every situation. Phrazz, I think you threw out the question of 'should we just allow nudity in avatar photos?' My opinion on this is a definate no, because this is a public board open to anyone of any age... which could get us into trouble. I agree that it's a good idea to label any nudity on the photography board as 'not work safe' out of courtesy for those of us who have jobs that pay us to read message boards in our down time.
Groovy
Hey Rebecca,
Thanks for the feedback--this means a lot to me. I try to steer the middle ground between people, but this sometimes leads to adversity. I'm sort of on the fence myself about these things, being impossible to offend myself (except when my honor or ethics are questioned). As for nudity and what's considered indecent, let's just leave this up to the people. If folks have a problem with any Avatars, please post to the Website forum and tell us why you don't like it. I am all ears and many Avatars can be just as creative (I promise not to use Rasputin's pickled penis ).
Speaking of Avatars, I really dislike the Mussolini Avatar because he was a fucking bastard and we might as well put up Hitler up there. I am not going to take it down or anything, just expressing my dislike. If people start posting Avatars of other mass murderers, I'm sure others will chime in.
Katie's right about not being able to cover every possible situation. At least we have some guidlines. The rest is left as "an exercise for the reader".
The general rule of "work-safe" is a good one. I'm sure noone wants me to blow up that Ashcroft mosaic (or do you? send me an IM then....).
Maybe we'll have an "adults only" group with only people of voting age allowed to visit. That way, we don't run the risk of upsetting the little kiddies here (names witheld to protect the innocent ).
Thanks for the feedback--this means a lot to me. I try to steer the middle ground between people, but this sometimes leads to adversity. I'm sort of on the fence myself about these things, being impossible to offend myself (except when my honor or ethics are questioned). As for nudity and what's considered indecent, let's just leave this up to the people. If folks have a problem with any Avatars, please post to the Website forum and tell us why you don't like it. I am all ears and many Avatars can be just as creative (I promise not to use Rasputin's pickled penis ).
Speaking of Avatars, I really dislike the Mussolini Avatar because he was a fucking bastard and we might as well put up Hitler up there. I am not going to take it down or anything, just expressing my dislike. If people start posting Avatars of other mass murderers, I'm sure others will chime in.
Katie's right about not being able to cover every possible situation. At least we have some guidlines. The rest is left as "an exercise for the reader".
The general rule of "work-safe" is a good one. I'm sure noone wants me to blow up that Ashcroft mosaic (or do you? send me an IM then....).
Maybe we'll have an "adults only" group with only people of voting age allowed to visit. That way, we don't run the risk of upsetting the little kiddies here (names witheld to protect the innocent ).
this is real late but if anyone's interested they'll read it. sorry about the mussolini thing. i was doing a project on that wacky jokester (kidding) at the time i chose that avatar. i chose it cause it seemed like it was "getting in character" somehow and also just as a reminder that i should be writing about how mussolini and the 'dolf kicked it old school (once again, kidding [they were fucktards, i got points off for using that word in my paper]) instead of posting on sliplive. i didn't even think anyone would recognize him, and i didn't think about how those who might would react. i didn't read this thread until recent and i'm quite sorry if i offended anyone. i like jaco's double jointed thumbs better